The interview started off like most conversations between guests and radio hosts on WVON 1690. But this wasn’t any show or ordinary guest. The guest was Rudy Giuliani, the disbarred New York lawyer and embattled advisor to former President Donald Trump.
The setting was the University of Milwaukee’s Panther Arena, across from the site of the Republican National Convention, held last week in Milwaukee. Hundreds of media outlets from across the globe were there seeking interviews with the Who’s Who of the Republican Party.
In the last two days of the Convention, WVON 1690 was there, one of the few Black media outlets that dared to stake out a spot to take on right-wing Conservative politicians, days after Trump survived an assassination attempt during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
It was a competitive media environment, and for WVON, the atmosphere was even more challenging for hosts Perri Small, Rufus Williams, Atiba Buchanan and Darlene Hill to obtain interviews with Republican politicians.
The station’s producer, Sunya Walls, was snubbed by Republican Senators Ted Cruz of Texas, and Marco Rubio of Florida. A former HUD Secretary also rejected an interview request. So did Georgia Congresswoman and far right Trump supporter Marjorie Taylor Greene.
“She just looked at me up and down and gave me that look. I knew it was a no,” Walls told the Crusader.
But two high-profile Republicans accepted the challenge. In addition to Giuliani, there was Arizona’s Kari Lake, a devout Trump supporter and frontrunner for the Republican nomination for the U.S. Senate.
Walls said WVON’s Hill saw Giuliani on the floor, where she asked him to come by WVON’s booth. Giuliani said he would after he completed his other scheduled interviews. Walls said she waited for Giuliani to finish an interview with another outlet and followed up on Hill’s request.
Walls told the Crusader she snagged an interview with Lake after speaking to her communications director.
Tensions were high, as both Trump supporters pushed their false election claims during rare interviews with the Black Press. It was a moment that allowed WVON broadcast journalists to challenge two guests who were unfamiliar with the Black Press and who thought they could get away with spreading false election claims without being called out on it.
The most intense interview was Giuliani’s 15-minute conversation with Buchanan and Hill who regularly host a 3 p.m. show on WVON.
Hill asked how Trump’s assassination attempt has made the Convention different. Giuliani said, “We come into it with a traumatic shock. The shock being our candidate for president, obviously, regardless of what the rest of America believes, the people love him. There isn’t a single person here that says what if. What if he had moved the wrong way and that [bullet] went into his eye and there wouldn’t have been no candidate here today. This [would be] a wake, a funeral.
“Those of us who believe that he can save our country and take us away from this march towards Marxism. It’s like God thank you, thank you for giving us the chance to get him elected. So, it’s a different type of Convention.”
After Giuliani talked about his losing a $148 million defamation lawsuit against two Black women in Georgia last year, the interview grew heated when Buchanan asked Giuliani would he and Trump accept the election results should Trump lose in November.
Giuliani said, if Trump wins, “I expect an administration like the first one, but much improved, meaning a man is a man with much deeper wisdom, much more restraint, much better understanding of the world and a deeper purpose.
“So, I really think we’re going to get a great president given all he’s been put through. Something happens when you’re put through hell, or you’re almost killed. You either grow or you shrink. I think you’re going to find that he’s grown. I think if we lose, I pray to God that it’s peaceful.”
At that point Buchanan asked, “Do you think he’ll accept the election results if he loses?”
Giuliani said, “Yes. He’ll accept. I would have accepted the election results if I didn’t have a thousand people giving me evidence that there was cheating. And their refusing to allow us to examine the ballots.”
Hill said, “I still don’t think that’s the case in the 2020 election, do you?”
Giuliani replied, “Of course I do. I have the evidence. I mean people don’t want to accept it. You’ve been brainwashed. So, it’s become like a barrier you can’t talk about.
“Isn’t it odd that three weeks ago 375,000 ballots in Georgia, and the battle in Georgia—it wasn’t about the machines, that’s kind of irrelevant. The battle was for the paper. So, I claimed that they inserted a lot of phony ballots in order to determine whether I was telling the truth, or they were. I should have been allowed on behalf of President Trump to examine the ballots.”
Buchanan said, “But the count has been audited multiple times.”
“Not by anybody on the Trump side,” Giuliani responded.
“Our history in America is that we don’t trust the other side. America has always allowed both sides to examine, except in that election in Democratic cities that are crooked.”
Hill said emphatically, “And both sides did.”
His voice rising, Giuliani said, “no, we didn’t. No, no, no. That’s wrong. I’m the other side. They would not allow me to see a single piece of paper as his lawyer. They do it all the time…I wanted to be the Republican here. Show me that piece of paper. Oh, my goodness. That piece of paper was never folded. Put it aside. I think they manufactured that in the three-hour period in the arena where they erased the tapes.”
Hill said, “Oh come on. Let me ask you this. How can we talk about the nation coming together when we have millions of people like you who don’t want to even accept the results of the 2020 election?”
Giuliani said, “I do the opposite. How can we have a nation come together when nothing has been done about a massive fraud on the United States that could happen again?”
Hill responded, “Is it just so hard to look back and say, ok we lost that one?”
Giuliani said, “No, I lost plenty. I lost some elections and didn’t contest some elections.”
After talking about how Obama-appointed judges influence some election lawsuits, Buchanan said, “What I’m saying is the 60-plus lawsuits brought by the Trump Administration—mostly all of them were thrown out or he did not win—were all litigated by appointees of him. So why do we not believe when these Trump judges say it, but we have a problem with Democrats?”
Giuliani responded, “There were some [lawsuits] thrown out by judges by him [Trump]. Most of them were thrown out by Democratic judges in courts in which the Democrats voted one way and Republicans the other way.”
On WVON’s Facebook page, commenters blasted Giuliani. One commenter, Christian Giannotti, wrote, “I can’t believe this! Where has he been?????” Peggy Green, another commenter, said “He’s so sad.” Tyrone Thomas commented, “Rudy is a devil. If his lips are moving, he’s lying. Go back to hell.”
Williams and Small interviewed Lake. The conversation was under a minute long, but it was also heated.
Lake, a former news anchor who lost her campaign for Arizona governor in 2022, cast doubt on the 2020 election by questioning how President Joe Biden could have received 81 million votes. She asked Williams and Small, “Do you believe Joe Biden was more popular than Barack Obama?”
Lake then said, “I’m wondering if the American people can see that Joe Biden can put two sentences together.”
Small replied, “Neither can Donald Trump.”
Lake then stated, “We have incredible oratory in Barack Obama and Joe Biden is more popular than him? I mean let’s use our common sense here.”
Williams then asked Lake about Project 2025, the Conservatives’ plan to dramatically transform the U.S. Government should Trump be re-elected. Fearing a backlash at the polls, Trump has distanced himself from the plan, a 900-plus page document written by most of his former Cabinet members and advisors.
In response to Williams’ question, Lake said, “You can ask me about that. But I don’t know anything about it. I haven’t read it. I haven’t studied up on it. So, I’m not going to answer that.”
